Ethical Sales Calls

Ethical Sales Calls: Trauma Informed Lens For Financial Objections

Ethical Sales Calls
Written by: Sophie Kessner
The Sophie Kessner Podcast
The Sophie Kessner Podcast
Ethical Sales Calls: Trauma Informed Lens For Financial Objections
All right, y’all welcome back to another episode of the Sophie Kessner Podcast. I am your host, You can call me so And in today’s episode, we’re going to be diving into an interesting conversation around sales calls. So this is something that it tends to bring up a lot of questions about do we need it? Do we not need it? Are they ethical? Are they not ethical? Is it manipulative? And I want to unpack that and help provide a little bit more clarity and intentionality behind the origin of sales calls, the best practices to support them, being more ethical, and how to really support both yourself and your clients in feeling really, really good about the process, if necessary, of applying a sales call to your enrollment. So, that being said, the first thing that I want to address are just some of the biggest pieces or biggest points of conflict when we’re talking about sales calls, and the first one is this idea that sales calls are icky and they are sleazy, and we feel like we’re manipulative and we feel like we’re trying to convince this person, and I really do believe a big reason behind that is because what has been traditionally taught in the industry and what we have to remember is what we’re learning and what we’re seeing today has been going on for years and years and years, and likely even decades, and so it’s just practices that have continued to be passed down and perpetuated without a whole lot of insight or inquiry or contemplation. So the traditional sales call model is we don’t tell anyone anything about our pricing, we withhold information in regards to all of the program details and how it works and all of that, and we get them onto a call. The call is the main goal to discuss, if it’s a fit.
When you get somebody onto a call, the next thing you’re trying to do is take them through a process of really uncovering and discovering their pain and what it is that’s really going on, the things that are hurting them so much right now and what they really want to change. And then you go into their desires. What are the biggest things that they want to achieve? What do they really really want? How is it going to feel? You get them into an elevated emotional space And then the third thing that you do is ask them what’s it going to cost you if you don’t do that? What’s it going to cost you? How committed are you to get there? on a scale of 1 to 10? What’s going to get it to a 10? And then you present your offering and you say, look, this is how we’re going to get you there, yada, yada. And then, of course, you object to being at the very end.
So I know all of this because it’s again something that’s been taught for years and years and years, and in the earlier years of my career, it was something that I did not only in my business, but was also doing it for other folks inside of their companies. Now there’s a few things about this that are questionable And, again, we’re not going to be defaulting and saying this is the right way, the wrong way, this is bad or whatever. But what we want to do is start to invite inquiry, start to invite a sense of curiosity about the business models that are so prevalent in the industry And decide for yourselves is this something that I actually want to do? Do I want to do it differently? How do I want to do it differently And why? Why am I doing it the way that I’m doing it? So let’s unpack the original strategy for sales goals.
If you’ve been in the industry and you’ve sold high ticket offers before, then you have likely been told, heard and even preached yourself that somebody who wants to buy into your services doesn’t understand or know the value, which is why you have to get them on a call. And if you don’t get them on a call and you present the pricing beforehand, they’re going to run away just looking at the ticket price instead of actually understanding the real value of it. So don’t put your numbers up front. I personally don’t agree with this model And, again, i don’t think that it’s right or wrong. These are just my personal opinions and perspectives around the reasons that I choose to either participate or stop participating in certain types of things. So here’s why I don’t necessarily love this. One is we create a belief around folks and their willingness to make big investments and their ability to understand or know what’s best for them, and we think, by this belief system, that somebody doesn’t understand the value of what I’m offering until I get on a sales call with them and I present it to them. If that’s really what we believe, then what we’re saying inadvertently is that somebody who’s on the other side of this doesn’t have enough self-knowledge, self-awareness, to be able to discern for themselves what’s best for them and what they need. And if this is right And what that also indicates is that perhaps there isn’t enough being done or a well enough job being done on the front end of us communicating the value of what it is that we do, how it works, how it impacts folks. So, just by looking at these interesting things, it’s interesting because we’re starting to take away the personal sense of responsibility and power that somebody else gets to have in making decisions for themselves without our emotional influence.
No-transcript. I personally believe that it’s important to at the bare minimum share a price range for your offerings, especially if somebody’s going to be getting on to a call with you to discuss potentially working with you. The way that you can do that one is just by having your pricing on your sales pages and on your whenever you’re marketing, on your marketing material, so that people can just say, okay, great, here it is. Now you don’t necessarily need to always have your pricing in your social media posts and things of the sort, but if your social media posts are leading to a sales page, then have it on your sales page. If you do applications for people to book a call with you have a question on there that just asks this is a program or service that’s between X and X price point and what most resonates for you is that I’m excited and I can ready and I can pay in full is that I really want to do this, but I might need a payment plan. I don’t know if I can actually financially afford to this right now. I might need something more accessible. And then there’s a fourth option of like there’s absolutely no way I can do this right now or there are any other lower ticket options, so you can just ask people and give them an idea so they have a sense financially of where they’re going to be when they get on this call and what they can expect.
Because we also want to make sure that we’re supporting folks in financial literacy, that we’re not just taking advantage of people who may not be asked financially literate by withholding information about the investment that they’re going to be making and then encouraging them to make risky investments off of emotional highs or lows. So what that looks like is on a call. Instead of trying to focus so intensely on the emotional state of somebody and getting them into a specific emotional state, we work with the actual details of what it is. You do what it is that they’re looking for, why it is they’re looking for that thing and what they’re wanting to receive, to see if there’s actually a match between the service or product you’re offering and what the client current problem is. And so this is not as a how would I say this.
It’s not a sexy approach, right? It’s a very fundamental like straightforward, no practical approach where you’re just having a conversation and you’re answering any questions that they might have. You’re getting curious about anything about them that might be a curiosity to you to make sure that they’re in the right place for your programmer service. And the only way that you’re going to know that information is if you have taken the time before getting on to sales calls to know what your offers actually are, to know who your person, an ideal client, actually is and what the baseline is for somebody that’s coming into your world. So we’re not just bringing people into a service to try to sell them into something, to keep them emotionally going and going and going, but instead we’re getting really, really clear and practical.
So let’s backtrack a little bit, because I think in this step there’s a lot to unpack and one of the big parts that I really want to make sure that you’re getting from this is that is knowing who your ideal client is, is knowing what your program or service is actually doing and what the results are that it provides. So if you have not yet developed clarity around these pieces, i’m going to give you some questions right now. If you want to come back later and listen to this, when you’re in a place where you can write down these questions and answer them in more depth, feel free to do so. And if you are just in a space right now where you can do that, go ahead and grab a pen of paper, do it, let’s go. So the first question here is what problem is this service or offer, product, et cetera, actually solving? What’s the specific problem?
Now, a lot of the times, we get really big answers, things like oh, it’s helping you feel empowered, okay, but we want to get more clear. We want to get a lot more specific on how empowered in what way? empowered in what definition? right? So you want to start to break that down? Okay, well, it’s empowering them in their financial life. It’s empowering them to and then again, what does that mean? What does it actually look like? It’s empowering them to feel like they have a sense of clarity on their finances and like they have a sense of clarity on how to actually budget.
So then, the next question that I would ask is okay, great, what are the end goals to where, when somebody finishes a program or a service with you, how you know that they’ve been successful in the program? What are the things that they would be walking away with, whether tangible or intangible, that you can say you’ve achieved this, this, this and that? So, if you’re somebody who does more tangible stuff, it’s simpler, right, it’s more straightforward, as in you’ll have a mood board, you’ll have a sales page, you’ll have XYZ, but sometimes, if you’re doing things that are a little bit different, like what is the word intangible things, like mindset work or transformation work you want to get clear on what the processes will support the client in doing So. For instance, this might be like you’ll have the ability to know how to self-regulate with the specific tools like breathwork, like yoga, meditation, to know how to track your system when you’re going into an activation and then also come out of that, so that you’re not feeling overly charged. You’ll be able to better manage stress and overwhelm by having more organization in your day to day life. You’ll have a better sense of how your mind works so that, instead of going into emotional spirals when big things come up, you can go through the process of checking in with yourself, tracking emotions, making decisions from a grounded and rooted space, right, so these are things that you can start to look at and say, okay, well, what am I actually doing? How do I actually create a business and an offer and a sales process that is really clean, that is really ethical and that is really transparent in both the reception of the client but also for you as the business owner, so that you can build a happy brand that feels really good for you and for the world? So what I would invite you to do, if you’re listening to live or wherever you are, is to take some time and really sit with that. What are the things that your clients are walking away with? the skills that they want to have, the tools that they want to develop, the minds that they want to develop, the practicality of what it is, what they’re going to be able to do after this, what they’re going to have finished at the back end of it And I get both realms. I really, really do. We have our agency, which is in some sense, easier quote unquote, because we can say you’re going to have this funnel with these landing pages, with this email sequence, with this automation, and so that tends to be easier to communicate.
But I also do trauma resolution work, and trauma resolution work is a different conversation, because clients will come and they’ll kind of get curious of like, what is this? How does it work? They say, ok, well, some of the objectives, some of the end goals of this work is to be able to support you, to feel like you can handle life, and what that looks like is being able to feel a deeper sense of connection to you and to life, to where, instead of feeling like you’re constantly running on empty and you’re going, going, going and not able to stop, you can move through life feeling a lot more calm, cool and collected, and you’ll be able to notice that on a day to day basis. You’ll be able to have a better sense of who you actually are and what you stand for. You’ll be able to hold better boundaries and speak up for yourself when you say actually no, this isn’t, this isn’t working for me, and that won’t put your system into a spiral. Instead, you’ll be able to do that and you’ll hold that energy confidently because you’ve done the internal work to work with, regulating and working with feeling a sense of safety and holding said boundaries. So that’s how we can start to take the intangible and make it tangible is by helping our clients see and by us looking and reconciling with OK, what are the ways in which this is actually showing up and how this is actually impacting and supporting myself and my clients and the people that I support, so that you can utilize that to communicate what it is you actually do. So we’re overlapping a few things here. We’re talking about sales calls, but we’re really talking about is marketing and messaging And, in addition to that, we’re talking about really understanding the depth of your work and what it is you do and how to communicate that clearly so that the call isn’t necessarily about taking somebody’s personal experience, the pain that they’re in the thing that they say they want, and then utilizing that to force them into or manipulate them and or coerce them into signing up for your program or service. So, all of that being said, let’s come on back over here And we’re going to go back into the conversation of the sales calls. So your sales conversation and then actually let’s backtrack, because before you get on the sales call, the things that I would encourage.
Having set up one is a space or a place whether it’s a Google Doc like this could literally just be a Google Doc. We’ve sold programs with just Google Docs, especially when it’s the beta round and when it’s the first time we’re testing an idea or concept. It’s just a Google Doc with all of the relevant information, with the clear objectives and outcomes of what we want to help our clients achieve, with the clear outline of what we are looking to support them with in regards to the content that we’ll be teaching, and we go more in depth with this. And then, additionally, we have on there the pricing details whether there’s a payment option, the payment plan if they wanted to pay in full, and any other FAQs, general questions that we know they might have about the program or service, and then, obviously, logistical details when it starts, deliverables as far as, like coaching calls, things of the sort. So, at the bare minimum, having something like that and it literally can just be a Google Doc where you have that information there, it’s organized in a clean way. It says, hey, this is the program, this is who it’s for, this is how you know it’s right for you. Here’s what’s included, deliverable. Here’s what I’m going to be teaching, the actual content itself. And then here is what my objectives are for you by the end of this program, the things that you’ll walk away with the skills, the tools, the knowledge, the outcomes. And then here are the pricing details. And this is also again the formula.
If you’re writing sales page copy, that can go straight forward into creating really clean, clear, epic sales pages. So you have that Google Doc, somebody reaches out, they’re interested in working with you. You send them the information that they can use then to sign up. Now, let’s say, you have a filtering process, right? So the reason why applications and sales page or, sorry, sales calls were originally created was not totally for the purpose of coercion, but more so to filter and make sure that people are in the right space and that you’re bringing in the right people into the right places and not bringing in anyone who’s perhaps not quite ready for the work that you’re doing or maybe not be, may not be the best fit. A really good example of this is, again, i have a private practice for trauma resolution work and I do a lot of really great stuff.
But if I am bringing on a new client and part of the intake or screening process to make sure that they’re a good fit. There’s certain questions that I’ll ask about mental health, about medication, about things like suicidal ideation, depression, et cetera, and if there are things on there that are showing me that this might be outside of my scope and that this person may need more additional support outside of what I can personally offer for them, then I have to disclose that with them and let them know. Like, hey, i really appreciate that you want to do this work and that you want to work together. Based off of what you’re sharing here, it sounds like what might be a better fit is XYZ, abc or if it’s something where I’m like I think I can help you in this regard, but I really want to make sure you also receive additional support for these pieces. So, for instance, if somebody is like looking into the possibility of medication, i can’t go there. It’s not within my jurisdiction to be able to support somebody undeciding on medication, regardless of my personal experience. So I would go and collaborate with them and say I want to make sure that you also have additional support and that you’re working with a psychiatrist or somebody who can support you on if you’re thinking about getting on medication, and I’m happy to support you on the somatic component of it and working through the embodied experience of trauma resolution. And so it’s a collaboration, not of this or that or not me trying to be all of the things for a client.
And I think this is really, really important, because a lot of the times we look at sales called in application forms and we just take the questions that were handed right Or whatever our mentor, coach or business program or course gave us. That’s what we then take and turn it into our application questions, and typically those are questions like name email what are your biggest three? what are your three biggest challenges right now? Um, what are the three biggest goals that you have? What’s the biggest pain in your life? Right, so it’s, it’s all the questions that are leading up to the call, so that I can continue to dig deeper into those pain points and into those problems. Um, again, i Rufus is saying hi guys.
Um, i don’t necessarily agree a hundred percent with this model, and it’s not to say that it’s bad or wrong, but I think it’s it’s important to recognize where are we just blindly following and taking on practices that may not actually be in our best interests, right, it may not actually be in the best interest of the client. So, in this scenario, what I would look at is what are the things that you need to know before you get on a call with somebody to determine whether or not they’re going to be in a right, the right fit for you. What are the things for you to know? Okay, this person may not be in the right place right now in their life or in their business. This might be something that’s a little bit out of my scuba practice, et cetera. Um, and by asking those questions, you’re helping to you’re helping both the client and yourself discern is this actually a good fit? Is this actually something that’s going to work? So, some ways to look at this for, um, somebody who does more technical stuff and like branding your sales pages.
Um, oh, my, my business partner, mal. She’s a brand web designer. She’s been in the industry for a long time And some of the questions that she asks is like you know, how long have you been in business? How many, um, how many years have you been off been delivering your offer? Are you clear on who your ideal client is? Um, so that she can understand and get a sense of, okay, this person. If they’re brand new to business, they don’t actually know what their offer is and they haven’t really worked with any clients, they’re not really in the right place to come and hire her for web design because, though she could do great work, the work isn’t going to be as impactful as it could be for somebody who’s more established, and so she would refer and recommend them out to go and get the support for her program Um, so that they can then come more prepared for her services later down the line. So this is an interesting conversation, right, because we’re getting into where we as business owners are saying yes and not right now, and that can be really really hard to do, especially for somebody who’s coming from a financially stopped place And you’re really good at a lot of things.
It can be really easy to just try to take on all of the different pieces and parts and projects and think that, okay, i can do this all, but the reality is that’s what’s going to set you up for failure in the long term, because it’s going to burn you out and it’s going to have you moved in so many different directions and not feeling really really clear in your messaging and your marketing and your offerings and what it is that you’re actually doing on a day to day. So things that you can ask in regards to the more intangible work would be things like do you have any serious mental health? What is the word Illnesses? Have you been diagnosed with anything, any type of mental health pieces? Have you ever had depression or anxiety? Right, so these are. Are you on any medication?
These are questions that you want to be asking just to get clear on like, okay, where is this person at? Because if they are answering that they have had some serious stuff and you have not been professionally trained for that, then it is really really, really important that you are supporting them and having the right support for those pieces and then getting clear on what your boundaries are and how you can support them in the right places, while staying in your lane. And what I mean when I say that is you’re staying within your scope of work. You’re staying within your scope of practice. You’re not going and trying to be a therapist or somebody who needs real therapy work in cognitive behavioral therapy support, but instead you’re helping them with the mental mindset pieces, which is fantastic. Well, they go and get additional support to work through some of the severe depression that they’re currently navigating. Because, again, if you have not been trained in that, you should not be touching that support on the outer pieces of it within your scope. Stay within your lanes, stay within your scope of practice. So you have the questions on here.
Now, some of the things that I look at on this whenever we’re creating applications for programs is we just want to know what are the things that are important to us, and this is why it’s not going to be a blanket application form or intake form or for enrollment form, for sales calls or enrollment call. It’s going to be different for every single person, based on the business that you run, the type of people support that you support, the type of work that you do, because your requirements per se are different And what you need to know and what you can do is going to vary depending on your training and your skills and your experience and your background. So, really taking the time to say, okay, what are the things that are nose for me, what are the things that, like these, are the types of clients that, though I would love to support, i know I can’t and or that it’s outside of my scope of practice. What are the parts that I really really love and enjoy doing and that I thrive at, that are the best part of me, and what are the things that, like, maybe are somewhat in the middle, that I’m a little unclear on and I need to spend a bit more time untangling the parts that are really clear and are for me and the parts that maybe are not necessarily what I should be focusing on and doing. So, when you have that, turn those into the questions so that you can ask If you’re doing any type of mental, emotional, intangible work, please look into making sure that you have questions that are screening for any type of serious trauma, so that if somebody does have that, regardless of whether or not your trauma informed, you need to make sure that they also have additional support outside of you by a trauma trained professional, and this is really about the safety and well-being of the clients that you’re working with.
Now, obviously, if your work is a lot less tangent or a lot more tangible and a lot more clear and straightforward like something like automations, funnels, the port, et cetera just having really clear boundaries about what it is that you actually do is important. Okay, so you’ve got your application form and the client fills it out and then they book a call. Right, that whole part is pretty straightforward. The difference on the conversation of the call is it becomes less of a conversation about this individual and the pain that they’re going through and their deepest desires and getting them through the emotional world coaster, and instead it’s really getting clear and like hey, you know, tell me a little bit about where you are, what you’re looking for, what you’re wanting to get out of this program, server or container. Because what you’re wanting to understand is do they have a clear and realistic idea of what they’re going to be receiving from working with you, and is there expectations of what they’re hoping to get feasible? Is it something that you actually provide? So it’s helping them understand, okay, well, what is it exactly that you’re looking for support with? What would that look like to be able to achieve that? How is it that you’re wanting to go about that? And then you can share more about you. Okay, well, this is how we work, this is what we do, this is what we would deliver, this is the objective to the end goals, and then you can get into the curiosity and the questions of what it is, that they’re on, clear on what questions, that they have things that are coming up, and then you can then support them and figuring out if it does make financial sense for them and if it does feel good, and then go forward with the onboarding process where you send contracts. You always send contracts, friends contracts and then payments. So that is the way that I would go about this process.
Now I know one of the questions that always comes up is well, what about when people have adoption, adoption, and objection handling is an interesting one. I don’t necessarily love objection handling And here’s the reason why I have personally experienced some of the harm from folks using some of these techniques to try to cure objections, especially when things have been what would be the word financially risky or out of reach, right? I remember one time I had some sales call with somebody who I was considering hiring for one to one support and I was sharing, like you know, okay, well, this is. She wanted to charge $5,000 a month for support And I was like, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, that’s a lot of money. And I said I was like, ok, i think I need to really sit down and think about this. And, of course, this is one of the big objections that’s always coming up And that folks are like, well, this is how you work through that.
And so she started asking me questions and digging into things like my inner child and my wounds and my fear. And this is the sales call. Granted, right, this isn’t me having hired her on a sales call. This is her on a sales call trying to get me to purchase a service. And then she essentially brought up something along the lines of how my inner child and my trauma is keeping me from being successful. And if you know anything about me, my system does not do well with other people poking at my shit.
And at the time I was in a really, really emotionally vulnerable space because I had just had my son, i was still in the depths of postpartum, I had yet to be diagnosed for what do you call it premenstrual dysphoric disorder, and I was also struggling with postpartum depression. So when this person said that to me and started picking at that, i was like, no, no, this is an immediate no for me, because right now you’re not necessarily looking out for my emotional best interest, It’s just looking at the financial gain of like, oh, you just need three clients And then you’re going to be able to make that. But right now that doesn’t necessarily make financial sense for me And I’m not in an emotional space to where I can go out and implement in the way that it is that you want me to go and implement to be able to do that, and I can’t put my system into that level of stress and anxiety to try to then push past and will my way to make the massive moves in order to create the financial things or the financial wins to just be able to afford that next on top of my living expenses. And unfortunately, in a lot of the conversations these things aren’t talked about, we’re not asked about what are your financial expenses right now? Like, what is your budget? What actually makes sense? How much time do you actually have? Because these are the things that matter And for whatever reason, it’s so interesting The personal development world and the online business world.
Sometimes it feels like they live in a little bit of a fairy tale, and I get it Because I didn’t learn, i didn’t really understand numbers and financial budgets and have real financial literacy until my like, until cash was born. Really, it was when I started to really dive into numbers, like really understand them, because I had a lot of like. I grew up semi financial stability was never really a thing, let’s just say that And I had a lot of debt And I like very financially immature growing up And I didn’t understand numbers. I didn’t understand it. My idea or mindset, because of the culture of the personal development world, was I’ll just make more money, i’ll just make more money, i’ll just make more money. And I did, i did. But the issue with that was the more money I made, the more money I spent, because I never knew how to actually look at my numbers and understand what was coming in, what was coming out, what was I actually profiting, and I always just assumed that the money that I was bringing in was my revenue or my profit for the year, when in reality my profit margins were fairly small because I was spending as much as I was making And sometimes I was spending more than what I was making.
And I think this is the problem for a lot of folks who are interested in doing some of this. Work is one the industry kind of sets up the standard that you have to invest really, really big to be able to make big changes, and the reality is you don’t. You don’t. You can invest in things that are much more accessible. For instance, with my trauma resolution work at the time that I’m recording this episode, i offer ad hoc sessions at an incredibly accessible rate of $150 per hour, and then, in addition to that, i offer sliding scale for folks who are in a place of less financial security or stability, where there’s financial uncertainty, and those are at $90 per session. So there is things and services and people out there who do offer much more accessible pieces in places for you to go, and if financial resources right now are not as readily available, then it’s important not to just put yourself in a risky financial position because you feel like you need to in order to move through whatever it is you’re moving through. In addition, for the service provider or the person who’s offering the service, it’s getting really really clear on what your numbers actually are and what they need to be so that your people can say yes and do the work that you do with them without putting themselves in a financially risky situation.
Now, my personal rule of thumb here is I like to price my services in accordance to what I predict somebody’s annual revenue is going to be. So, if I know, i’m working with business owners who are in the 80 to 120k price rate or annual salary range revenue that they’re bringing in per year. 20% of that is a pretty decent chunk. We’re talking like $24,000 per year. So I know that there’s a budget of around $24,000 per year And then I priced my services accordingly to support that. Now, obviously, if you’re working with different tiers or different levels of businesses, you’re working with corporate industries or you’re working with high level folks who have much higher salaries, then you can adjust your pricing accordingly. But if you’re wanting to work with a demographic that is in a price range or in a what is the word I’m looking for the wage range that their annual salary is in is under $100,000 per year then it’s important to really consider OK, what is an actual budget that would make this sustainable for the person to invest in the types of services that I’m offering, while also making sure that you’re paying yourself an equitable salary?
Now, obviously, i go a lot more into this in previous episodes, so if you haven’t checked those out, go back and watch the once on financial literacy. But that’s being said full circle. Let’s come back over here. We’re going on a full ride today, my friends. This is my mind. So you have your call, you talk about the pricing And then the person decides whether or not it’s a good fit And they say, ok, i am really interested, but I need to think about this.
Then you can ask OK, great, is there anything else that you need more clarity on, or information that you need on, or any questions or anything that you’re uncertain about in regards to this, or is it just needing to do your own processing on it? So we want to make sure yes, obviously that they’re 100% clear And they have all of the information that they need to be able to make that decision. Great. And then you let them take their time to make that decision. It is not your job to make that decision for them. It is not your job to sit there and tell them how they’re going to do all of this. You want to make sure that they feel really good and that they’re coming and they’re making a decision from a grounded space, from a neutral space, from a place of feeling like OK, this does make sense, even if sometimes it might be a little riskier, right? We’re not saying don’t take risks. We’re saying take calculated risks that are coming from a grounded, regulated space. Big difference. Thank you, jesse.
So the other one might be something like I need to talk to myself. Let them talk to their spouse. Jesus, it’s ridiculous that I have to say that, but it’s like. Of course, you need to talk with your partner about making a really big financial decision that’s going to impact your entire family. Of course, please take your time and let me know if he has any questions, or if she has any questions, or if they have any questions, and I’d be happy to get on the call with both of you and answer any of those or address anything, because I want to make sure that this makes sense for both of you. I want to make sure that you’re both on board and I want to make sure that it does make financial sense as well.
The other question, or the other objective that is normally addressed he’s got, oh, the money. What do you think is the fourth box? If somebody says something that is out of their budget, believe them. Believe them when they say that We don’t need to try to tell them about how their finances work and where their finances are. If somebody says this is just not something that I can afford right now, great, great, ask them what is their budget, what is their, what type of service are they looking for and what price range. Ideally, if you’ve done everything else that we’ve talked about on this episode, then you don’t need to worry about that, because they’ll already know your pricing coming into it and that’s not going to be a question on the call. It’ll just be oh, okay, yes, i can see. This obviously isn’t the right service. So here are some alternative options that are more cost effective or more affordable or more accessible, based on what your budget is. So that’s a pretty straightforward answer, right, great Sometimes. So there might be the question of, like folks who really, really want to do something and they might just need a different type of payment plan. This is 100% up to your discretion.
Over the years, i’ve had different opinions on this about like no, it’s a hard fact. You need to have everyone on the same payment plan. You can have you know more. What is the word? I spread out payments. So it really just depends on your business and what the product or service is. Personally, i find that if it’s like an ongoing container and it’s a set amount for, like the total of the container, you can look at like how you can split the payments. If it’s a product, like something that’s a DIY, it’s, you know, you can’t really have too much leeway on that. But if it’s a service or like a course or a group program, i think there’s a little bit more flexibility and you can look at offering potentially like extended payment plans. Obviously, you want to adjust accordingly in your pricing, but we’re not talking about creating like outlandish taxes or like outlandish interest rates. We want to make sure that we’re charging equitably and also protecting yourself financially. So that is the financial objection. We’ve got the spouse objection.
Then I need to think about it and it’s not the right time. If somebody says that something’s not the right time, i’m like listen to them, listen to them, listen to them and just get curious, like, okay, great, you know, let me know what. Like, what specifically is it about right now? That’s not feeling, like it’s good for you, and then just getting clear, i’m like, okay, great, like I totally appreciate that And you know when you’re ready, i’m here, i’ll be here because if you’re building a sustainable business, you will be because you’ve set it up so that you don’t have to put financial pressure on people to have to join. Now, in the case that you’re doing something like a cohort model, where you’re like launching a program and you have a group starting all at the same time, then it might be more so of like legitimate urgency, right, like the cart is actually closing and you do this once a year Like that’s real, that’s real. Then it is just having a conversation. I’m like I totally get that. And you know, if you want to, if you want to wait till the next round or the next year and you want to secure your deposit for that, you can start doing that now. But if you know you aren’t quite ready, that’s okay too. That’s okay, right.
And I think all of this is speaking into a much bigger picture. I’m so proud of this fucking episode. It’s great. All of this is speaking into a much bigger picture of how we in our businesses are either choosing to support a change, a shift in the culture, or we’re just perpetuating the same things happening in the bigger scheme of capitalism and corporate world and dressing it up as entrepreneurship and empowersional empowerment. What an actuality, friends. Continuing to do the same things, just in a different space is not making a change. It’s just perpetuating the same problem, and this is why people burn out. This is why we see people who are again into serious financial debt. This is why we see burnout happen. Overwhelm, anxiety, all of the things is because when we’re just perpetuating the same problem but dressing it up in a different way, we’re not changing things. So when we start to move away from the sense of like I need everybody to invest now and I need to show them how to do this and help them push past and will their way or whatever, we start to create more space for people to come from a regulated space, to come from a grounded place, to feel more financially literate, to feel more financially stable, to make better decisions about how they want to do things. And that, my friends, is how you change the culture.
So I hope that you enjoyed this episode. It was a little bit of a longer one. I know that there was a lot to unpack here, so I hope you enjoyed it And if there’s any other questions that are coming up, you can always reach out at. Hey, h-e-y at the sacred period, ceo. Hey, at the sacred period, ceo. That is our email for the team.
So if there’s questions, anything that you want to submit as far as like requests, feel free. Otherwise, if you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to me If you could leave a review and a comment and just like five star, whatever you’re on. That really helps this podcast start to get seen, start to grow, and I just love feedback. I love feedback. Feedback is great. If you hated this episode, i mean, let me know why. What specifically? I hope. I mean you know it’s fine, i won’t be offended, i promise. And then if there’s any other topics that you’re interested in that you want me to go deeper on, feel free to just email them to us and we’ll be happy to get them on our radar. All right, y’all. That is it for today and I will see you on the next episode.


Tired of feeling icky and manipulative during sales calls? It’s time to reimagine the sales call model! Join me as I explore why the traditional approach to sales calls may not be the best fit for everyone, and how withholding pricing and program details can negatively impact both you and your clients. At the very least, let’s consider sharing a price range for our offerings and take into account the mental health of our potential clients.

In this episode, we’ll discuss the process of trauma resolution and its objectives, as well as how understanding these aspects can help you communicate more effectively during sales calls. We’ll also emphasize the importance of screening processes to ensure that clients are a good fit for your work while staying within your scope of practice. Learn how considering your clients’ mental health can lead to better outcomes and more successful sales calls.

Finally, we’ll tackle financial objections and discuss how to create a supportive environment for both you and your client. Discover the importance of financial literacy and budgeting when creating services and programs, as well as how to price your services accordingly. Learn how to offer equitable payment plans that protect you financially and when it’s the right time to present them. Don’t miss this episode full of valuable insights and tips to help you navigate the world of sales calls with authenticity and integrity.

Chapters & Key Points

Reimagining Sales Calls (12 Minutes)

I explore the conversation around sales calls. I discuss how the traditional sales call model perpetuates the idea that sales calls are icky and manipulative, and how this model involves withholding information about pricing and program details until the call itself. I then discuss why I don’t agree with this model, as it creates a belief around people and their willingness to make big investments and their ability to understand what’s best for them. Lastly, I share my belief that at the bare minimum, a price range for offerings should be shared.

Sales Calls and Marketing Messaging (8 Minutes)

We explore the process of trauma resolution and the objectives of the work. I discuss how the process can help individuals feel a deeper connection to themselves and to life, and how this work can help people to regulate and feel a sense of safety. I also explain how this understanding of trauma resolution can be used to communicate in sales calls more effectively, and why applications and sales calls were originally created. Finally, I emphasize the importance of screening processes to ensure that clients are a good fit for the work.

Navigating Client Boundaries and Expectations (6 Minutes)

The importance of considering mental health when creating application forms for programs and during sales calls is paramount. It is important to be mindful of boundaries and staying within one’s scope of practice when working with clients who have experienced serious mental health issues such as depression or anxiety. Trauma resolution can help individuals feel a deeper connection to their own mental wellbeing. Advice on how to assess a client’s expectations and objectives to ensure that they are realistic and can be met is also provided.

Financial Accessibility in Personal Development (6 Minutes)

I discuss the importance of financial literacy and budgeting when creating services and programs. I explore how the personal development world can sometimes feel like a fairy tale and how this can lead to unrealistic expectations of our finances. I offer insight to service providers on how to price their services in accordance to the annual revenue of their clients, as well as support for those who have limited financial resources.

Financial Objections and Changing the Culture (7 Minutes)

I explain how to handle financial objections during a sales call. I emphasize the importance of considering the customer’s budget when creating services and programs and how to offer alternative options if the customer’s budget does not match your pricing. I also explore how to offer payment plans that are equitable and that protect you financially, and how to determine the right time to offer payment plans.

Asking For Feedback (1 Minutes)

I explore how to handle customer objections and how to create a supportive environment when making sales calls. I emphasize the need for individuals to provide honest feedback, and the importance of considering customer’s budgets and mental health when creating services and programs.

Episode Keywords:

Sales Calls, Authenticity, Integrity, Communication, Mental Health, Trauma Resolution, Financial Literacy, Budgeting, Financial Objections, Payment Plans, Equitable Payment Plans, Customer Objections, Supportive Environment, Honest Feedback, Program Details, Price Range, Scope of Practice, Realistic Expectations, Annual Revenue, Limited Financial Resources, Right Time to Offer Payment Plans

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Meet The Host

Hey I’m Soph! I’m a mama and online digital marketer who’s been in the game since 2015. I LOVE building businesses that support creating real time freedom which is why I choose to specialize in email marketing, blogging and podcasting and teach others to do the same.

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I'm Sophie Kessner
Ethical Sales Calls

First generation Mexican American mama that’s gone from hood to strategic hustle. I’ve spent the last 10+ years inside the personal development space supporting 100’s of coaches in scaling 6 figure businesses online & supported 4 different companies in surpassing the 7 figure mark. Today, I focus on making scaling more sustainable by integrating the lenses of business, systems, automation and CEO Development through an Equity centered and Trauma informed lens.

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Sophie is the founder of The Sacred CEO™ Agency and has been in the service based coaching industry since 2015. She’s created and scaled 4 different multi 6 figure coaching programs including their latest course, The Online Business Automator.

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