If you feel like your business is stuck in a rut, simplifying your business may be the best way to go. If your business is messy and complicated, as your scale increases, so, too, will that mess. Reuben Driedger is a business coach who has helped over 400 entrepreneurs move their businesses online. Reuben sits down with Dan Mendilow to talk about the principles and benefits of simplifying your business. Simplifying your business allows you a much better grip of everything that’s going on within it, so what are you waiting for? With a little help from Dan and Reuben, your business could be in much better shape for the future!
Listen to the podcast here:
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Simplifying Your Business With Reuben Driedger
I’ve been bringing a lot of more spiritually-minded people because when the shit hits the fan, as it does in a global pandemic for example, it calls for a reconnection with your spirituality. It’s a beautiful time to get into all things woo. When you’re talking to me, it’s not woo. I bring science to it. It’s real. If it’s woo, it’s bullshit. We can ditch the word. It’s either spirituality or bullshit. Woo is nonsense.
What’s important is to remember that there’s a groundedness that when you lose yourself in the clouds or energy, which is beautiful. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that. What I do encourage is balance. I ran into Reuben online and we immediately found, “This is some beautiful balance because I’m in the mind, energy and psychology.” Things that are a little less tangible. It’s wonderful and easy stuff, but what I have noticed is that the people who get lost in this world and forget about systems of structures, data, tracking and all that stuff, they lose their businesses because the businesses are tangible things. You have to know how to work with both.
What a beautiful way to balance me out and all the information I’ve been bringing you than to bring on a Reuben Driedger, a business coach who’s helped over 400 entrepreneurs move their business online. One of the things that he is a true expert at is all of that 3D stuff. It is important that we can lose track of when we’re all meditating all day. It’s like, “That’s great, that’s important stuff.” What about your sales? What about your conversions? How do you know if you’re doing well? How do you set your systems up so that you can balance yourself out, feel good, be that attractive, spiritual, psychological powerhouse, but back it up with real numbers, figures and cash? Welcome to the show, Reuben. I am excited to have you here.
Thank you. Honestly, I’m excited. It’s the truth. I told them that this is one of my most favorite things. I love being able to provide service to people. I love how you started because one of the things that I love to do is to play music and a bunch of different instruments. The beauty with any art form is that there’s the art itself and then there’s the math and tangible behind it. Even learning to play guitar, you had to learn the scales. You had to learn these different shapes, forms and patterns. At the end of the day, you need to learn improv. You need to learn how to make all these different fun things match together. I’m excited because I believe in a balanced universe where you have it all. I like the people. I know a person who has a tattoo on the wrist. It’s The End, simple, which is like, “You can have it all. You can have this and that and the balance together.” I’m excited to dive in because I do love the tactics and strategies. I’m happy that we can do this together and balance it up.
That’s the thing. I’ll tell you straight. When you read my stuff online, I opened the shit on strategies, but that’s because my audience is heavy into strategies that they think that’s all there is.
This is important because the message doesn’t necessarily have to be true at the moment for everyone. I talk about that a lot because a lot of people are like, “I’m turned off by that person on social media.” I was like, “Maybe that message isn’t for you.” In the same way that maybe you’re like, “You don’t need more strategy. You need to be more mindset.” We had the opposite where some people were like, “I trust you.” We work with some spiritual coaches sometimes and they’ll be like, “I’m in flow. I’m attracting clients to meet,” yet they don’t do any work.” It’s the same thing. It’s like we’re trying to pull people out of the ditches by being in the other ditch.
If you’re reading this and you’re in one camp where you’re like, “I’ve got the strategy down,” then cool. Check for the nuggets that you might have overlooked and maybe have missed because we want to avoid premature closure. If you’re in the camp or you’re like, “I’m Bodhisattva. I’ve got that shit down, but I don’t know how to run a reliable business.” You all better check this out. Reuben, you were telling me that you have a nice, basic, simple structure that you like to teach that keeps things easy for people to learn. It was called The Loop Method. Tell us a little bit about it.
I created The Loop Method as a little bit out of necessity. When I was new, I started as an online fitness coach in the online space. All the inspiration came from my wife because she was a health coach in the online space first, so credit to her. I was being taught a couple of different things as far as how do you get clients. There were a lot of different strategies. It was interesting because the strategies themselves were one way or the other. I’ll share this because maybe some people are familiar with this. The one way that I was being taught was to post the right content and the right people will come to you. It’s like “Build the city and they will come,” or whatever it is.
[bctt tweet=”Message every single person that looks like they could be a client.” via=”no”]
The other extreme was I was being taught to find people, message every single person that looks like an ideal client and try to sell them. There are these two extremes that I saw and being matched with naturally myself. I wanted to find a way where I could bring those worlds together. How I often talk about it is there are people that try to attract clients. There are people that hunt for clients. What The Loop Method is, in my opinion, is we create clients. I’ll walk through a simple structure and you can ask some more questions about it, but anyone that wants to become a client of yours, they go from a process of being cold to the idea of being hot and signing up. I thought to myself, “How can I consistently move people every single day from being cold to being warm, warm to hot, hot to pay?”
It was a simple formula of, “How do you warm somebody up?” We came up with The Loop Method. I’ll share the four main principles. The first thing is you need to get someone who doesn’t know you at all from Adam or Eve to start to know you. We came up with this section called Building a Targeted Audience, which is, “How do you go from people not knowing you to starting to follow you on Instagram, friend you on Facebook, targeted people, etc.?” Remember we’re focusing on quality over quantity because you can have all quantity in the world. We’ve helped a lot of influencers who have 100,000 followers who are making no money. Targeted is the first step. How do we go from people who are not part of our traffic to being in our audience? Now, they are what we call a cold lead. They don’t know us yet, but at least they’re going to see our content.
The second step is, “How do we get that person to make a small commitment to us?” It’s like in a relationship. Before you go on to propose, you have some steps. The first is to date. Some people do courtship, engagement, and marriage. I always say that people will always take small steps with you before they take big steps. What’s a small commitment that you can “sell” them on? You shouldn’t try to sell them on the big commitment on the front end. Usually, I tell people what we call value pieces, which could be a freebie, opt-in or any free resource, workshop, masterclass or challenge. How can you connect those new cold audience people to something that’s going to give them value and get them committed in a small way? That’s the second step of The Loop Method.
The first is we get them into our audience and turn them into a cold lead. We’ve turned them into a warm lead by them digesting something free, valuable, and helpful. The third step is what we call nurturing. They’ve already raised their hand and said, “I am an ideal client. I am a lead. I’m slightly interested.” You want to build a one-to-one connection with this person. This is where learning to be human online. This is where you can be spiritual, aware and present in your work as you start to build these relationships with people. Once they’ve raised their hand, you have full right to start a conversation with them, ask them about what they’re going after as far as goals and ask them what they’re struggling with. This is where you build a relationship via communication. It is simple stuff.
The last step is offering for them to get on a call with you. A lot of these people will reach out to you because you’ve been helpful in the process. I’ll go through those four steps again. It’s building a targeted audience, getting them to become a lead by offering some free information, warming them up with small commitment, then continuing that relationship by going deep. Use it as a messenger. I use voice notes or video messages to go deep and intentional with them. Offer to get on a call with them because they’re at a place where they’ve committed to the small stuff. They’ve committed to having a conversation and they are going to commit to getting on a call with you. There’s a sales process that goes along, but those are the four simple points. We track those things every single day, which is another topic.
I like this because it does make it sound simple. I’ve worked with many different kinds of business coaches and sometimes, things are complicated. First, you got to write a 40-page guide, then you need to have a webinar and to get people to the webinar. You need to have a sixteen-step funnel, to show up at their home, and to convince their mom that it’s okay. Maybe then you’ll get $5 out of it. You sit there bleeding out of your nose wondering whether you’ll ever have a successful business because it sounds like there’s so much to do. Whether you’re breaking it down, it makes it sound simple.
At the end of the day, simplicity wins. I always describe it this way to my clients. “If your business is complicated when you’re doing less than six figures, once it’s at seven figures, it’s going to be a massive mess.” They need simple scales. If you don’t have a simplistic model, if there are many different moving parts, it’s not going to be something that’s going to be able to grow. That’s why focus is important for new entrepreneurs because there are 1 million to 1 business coaches saying, “Do this. This is the best. That is the best.” The funny thing is they all work like LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, email, paid advertisement, direct mail. What you want to do is find something that you feel works well for you. Your ideal clients enjoy the one sequence, laser in on it. That’s what’s going to create faster success because you’re specific.
I love that you brought that up there too because there are many different things that I’ve tried that have miserably failed. It came from incredibly successful business coaches. They’ve given it to all of their clients and it’s worked like, “Reach out to twenty people a day and start those conversations.” I got banned from messaging on Instagram immediately and got almost kicked off of Facebook entirely within almost no time at all. Not a single good thing happened from that strategy, only negative because it didn’t align with my energy. I was doing it and I knew it wouldn’t align with me but I’m like, “As long as I get results from it.” I stepped out of myself in order to adapt a strategy that I got from a coach that I then later had to fire because all of his strategies didn’t work for me. I left myself out of the process.
This is why I created The Loop Method because there are dozens of ways to do each step. If I was to say build a targeted audience, the one way you could do this, the simple organic way is to figure out where your ideal client is on Facebook and friend them. That’s a simple way, but also getting out and showing yourself in the right podcast could bring people into your audience, but you wouldn’t have to do that one method, pay for traffic, or get people to refer people. The goal isn’t that everyone has to be cookie-cutter the same. The goal is that you understand the steps that will lead people.
I’m sure, even for you, Dan, when you think about how people become clients of yours are following a similar process of whether there could be the referrals but, “These people start following me. They engage in certain ways. I get free content.” Whether they’re coming to you or you’re pursuing them, you’re following these same steps. That’s important because entrepreneurs need to learn how to fish for themselves, but understand what pole or tackle to use, and all those different things. You give them everything and maybe figure out which path works best for them. That’s the mark of a truly good business coach doing a little bit of that customization work.
Also, it’s important as a client to be able to feel into that because you do have many options. It’s because one works for someone, it does not mean it will work for you. It’s because it doesn’t work for you, it doesn’t mean that it’s a bad strategy. We’ve got to find ourselves and I love it because when you do find the things that are aligned with you, you get to play into simplicity. When you are working systems that don’t align with you, you have to work fucking hard.
You plateau and hit the wall. Even while I was business coaching myself and trying to scale, I tried to do things that every other business coach was doing and they fell flat. I plateaued for a full year in my business because I was trying to do what everyone else was doing instead of looking internally and being like, “What do I feel like I need to be doing?” and then making that happen.
There’s one thing that does help because we’re getting into the idea of like, “Is it work?” When I first started my business, I was like, “I’m good at sales because I have clients. I think I’m okay.” I had no idea whether it was working or not. I was a gutshot ego like, “I’m good because I want to be good.” When I started tracking things, I realized, “I’m not such hot shit,” which I am again because I track it and I know my numbers. I know that I’m a fucking badass on the phone.
There’s a logic behind the knowing.
Tell us a little bit about that because I know it’s an important thing for people.
It’s funny because a lot of people don’t like tracking. Mainly because it’s going to show them exactly where things are at. For most of my life, I didn’t track anything. It was a subconscious like, “If I start to track it, I’m going to become aware of all this shit.”
[bctt tweet=”Don’t try to sell people on a big commitment on the front end.” via=”no”]
People don’t want to go to the dentist because they’re going to find out about cavities, but if you don’t go to the dentist, you’re going to lose all of your teeth.
That’s a perfect example. I’ll give people a couple of numbers that are important to track in business. The first thing and the basic one is, “What is your sales percentage as far as if you get an X amount of calls, how many of you have close?” I’ll give a percentage if you’re a new entrepreneur, where you should be at. If you’re a seasoned entrepreneur, where you should be at. If you’re a new entrepreneur, between 30% and 40% close rate is okay. If you’re falling beneath 30%, work on that as one of the things that you work on. If you’re a seasoned entrepreneur and you’re doing six figures or beyond, you should try to up it to 60% to 70%. Those are aggressive numbers. A lot of it has to do also how you source the leads, how you get them in and if they’re the right people. Those are some numbers that you can look at. The experts do close at 90%, but as far as seasoned people versus beginners, those are the percentages.That’s the first thing.
The second thing is to have sales calls percentages, you have to have calls booked. One of the biggest things that I was asking people is, “How many sales calls do you have on a weekly basis?” If you have one or less, it’s going to be hard to grow a business. It’s one of those numbers that you track. If you have 5 to 10 sales calls per week, you’ll be doing well. There’s a bunch of numbers that you can track before that. If you want the one steps before that, it’s The Loop Method. How many new people are coming to your audience, are you connecting to value, you build a relationship with, and you’re offering causes? It’s those four numbers that I described. Those things compound into sales.
The other two numbers that are important are the lifetime value and worth of a client. A lot of people don’t think about this. Lifetime value is, “How many times will this client you sign up pay me again?” Let’s say they signed up for three months. Are they going to sign up again for three months? That’s the lifetime value. If they pay once, how many times will they pay again in the future? We want to track that because let’s say you sell someone a $100,000 program in a year. As they paid $3,000 for you and if you average that out, every time you get a new client, even if you paid $1,500 to get a client that pays you $100,000, but if you know you’re going to make another $2,000 from them as the year goes on, you’re still profitable. Not on the front end, but the back end.
The lifetime value is important. Lifetime worth is lifetime value plus referrals. You also want to know how many people are referring people to you. If you get no referrals, you might want to look at upping your coaching, doing a bit of a better job, delivering better results because successful clients do refer clients. You want to look at out of all the classes I’m working with, are they referring people to me? Those are a couple of tangibles of what I track. I track more than that. We track revenue, how many clients we’re working with that timeline. We track a lot of stuff. I have ten trackers open up on my computer. Before, I would have had one tracker. I’m learning all this myself and teaching as we go.
I love what I’m getting here. This is what I learned a couple of years ago. When one of my business coaches was like, “How much money did you make last month?” I’m like, “About this or that.” She’s like, “What does about mean? How much did you spend?” I’m like, “I don’t know.” She’s like, “What? You do not know how much you earned and how much you spent?” The weird thing is most of the people who are in the business that I’ve spoken with don’t know either one of those numbers. That’s basic shit. How do you not know how much money you’re making? How do you not know if you’re going broke?
A lot of people who have “six-figure businesses,” they’re not making much money there. Let’s say they make $10,000 per month. They’re spending $2,000-ish on services, a VA and different things like that. They have to pay taxes on that, so another $2,000 or $3,000, but they’re left with $5,000 for their personal life. For most people, $5,000 could be decent as far as a full-time income. It’s not a fancy life. It’s not like you have this lifestyle going on. It’s important to look at profitability. For a business that wants to scale, profitability is everything in all your expenses. When I think about profitability, taxes, expenses, and my salary have gone. Everything besides that, “What am I making at the end of the day?” If your business can’t break even, you’ll be able to have a good lifestyle. That’s what we call lifestyle business where you can support your lifestyle, your expenses and taxes, but you have no profit margin. If you want to build a business that you can take the profit out, you could reinvest it in the business, you can reinvest to other things, you can give it away to charity, you have to know your profitability or the margins.
It lets you know what’s going on. It’s a weird thing when somebody comes to me for a business question. About 50% of my clients that come to me, their number one challenge is their business. They know that I’m not a regular business coach. I do work on businesses, so I am a little bit, but when I start getting into that, they get blindsided because they think I believe that I’m only going to talk about mindset and how do you feel about things. I start asking these questions and they don’t have any answers. My question then is, “How do you know what’s wrong? How do you know where things are breaking down?” If they track as you’re suggesting every step along the way, “How many calls do I have? How many sales calls do I have? How many yeses did I get? How much money for me each one throughout the process?”
You know that, “Everything is good up until this point.” This is where things break down and then we can start looking at it like, “If you’re great all the way up until the phone. That’s where things break down. I know you got some shit around sales and then I can help you.” If you have no idea because you’re not tracking anything, then you’re in the dark looking for a way out of this maze, but you don’t know where you are at all. It’s challenging.
A lot of people, they’re scared to track because of that. They’re like, “If I track, then I’ll know what the problem is.” They’ll note the bottleneck. One of my mentors always told me and was like, “Reuben, you’re always the bottom. Whenever you track more, you’re going to figure out more weaknesses. It’s how it works. It’s exposing how everything is, there are always problems in businesses. They’re never going to go away. You’re going to get different problems, maybe bigger and better.” For someone who wants to go to another level, there is some subconscious work to get into tracking, getting over the fear, whatever it is. Also, there’s seeing it and understanding like, “I know exactly what to do to get to the next level.” That’s why I plateaued for a year because I wasn’t aligned with the model I was working with, but also I wasn’t tracking stuff. I had months and they were staying in this range. I didn’t know that if I tweaked a couple of things, I could have doubled my leads because I wasn’t tracking. I preached it. I’m the unsexy business coach because I’m like, “Let me get back to some basics here.”
That’s a beautiful thing. If you’re reading this and you’re having that “I don’t want to go to the dentist” move that a lot of people have because you are like, “I don’t want to know.” Look at the other side of it. Let’s say you start tracking and you get some ugly news, but you’re tough. You’re not a two-year-old anymore who can’t take anything. You got a thicker skin on you. Let’s look past it. You take the initial hit, but you’re a tough person. You’ve got this shit, no worries, but because you’re tracking it, you can diagnose and improve. When you do improve, you get to see it because you’re tracking it. From the moment things start getting even better, you see it. When you don’t track, you miss all of it. You miss your wins as well. I’m thinking how many wins have gone by uncelebrated or how many things you’ve done well, but you didn’t know because you didn’t track it. You might’ve missed a million-dollar idea that was starting to take off because you didn’t know.
I have not thought of it that way. I’ve always thought about it like when you don’t track, you miss out on all of your weaknesses. It’s true. You’ll miss on when you had your best month and when something worked well. That’s something because a lot of us were like, “I have months that are great and that are bad.” They’re missing out on figuring out why those great months happened.
You need to know what you’re doing right.
That’s good. That was helpful for me because oftentimes, I see it as the negative spin but the flip side is there.
Let’s put it this way. It’s almost the difference between pure intuitive eating and a hybrid because everybody’s quarantine and like, “I don’t want to get the COVID -19.” Those 19 pounds. It was like, “I’m looking a little flabby.” People are thinking maybe a little bit like, “It’s intuitive eating, so I’m going to feel my way through and eat what feels right.” How do you know it is right? Let’s say you’re blah, whatever. You’re not tracking and measuring. Some days you feel better or worse. Some days you look in the mirror and you think you look better or worse. What happens if for one week you nailed it and you started getting into hyper health. You started shedding pounds, feeling better, sleeping better, kicking ass, building muscle, but because you didn’t track it, the next week you’re like, “I’ve got to try something else.” You got into something different and you missed your formula. You had it, but because you didn’t track it, you didn’t know it. Think of how awesome you might be without knowing it. Think of how much genius you’ve got inside of you, but because you didn’t set up something to allow you to see it, it’s gelling. It is waiting for you to pay attention to it. Tracking helps you do that.
That’s the discussion I often have with my clients. I tell them, “It’s hard to eat in your business intuitively. As you get better at tracking, essentially it’s always the paradox. When you understand structure more and you get into it, you rely on it less but at the beginning, you need it more. It’s funny but every new level, there are more things to track. As you get to know how to track them, you start to intuitively work at that level where you are hitting the right things. It’s always a bit of a teeter-totter. We want to track heavy. When we’re getting in it, then we’ll go to another level to track more. It’s always a little bit of a balancing game.
[bctt tweet=”Lifetime value is vital in being able to get a sale.” via=”no”]
It sounds like a mastery tool. When I teach people about public speaking, a lot of my clients will come and they say like, “It’s part of my job or part of the job that I want to do. How do I do that?” The first thing I tell them is to get good at writing scripts and good at ignoring them. Write the script and get good at memorizing the script so you know where you’re going. When you perform, ditch the script because you know it so well that it allows you to depart from it, experiment, and play. You always have your breadcrumbs coming back home. When you’re tracking things in your business and you use it to guide you to improve certain areas, after a little while, your numbers are going to look like what you want them to be. That means you’ve mastered that little area and your script. Since you know what to do, what works, and how to get back to that, it allows you the freedom of playing, experimenting, and testing. If shit goes sideways, you know exactly how to bring it back into what succeeded before because you did it. You tracked that. You were aware of it. You knew it. It’s not like this tracking thing is confined, it is your key to freedom.
It’s what they always talk about. The structure is not something that’s supposed to enclose you, it’s supposed to allow you to be a structure in a day. It allows you to be more productive rather than less. Those are different. It’s a paradox, in a sense.
It’s on you to find your flow with that and to determine what your goals are and your feelings of mastery before you jump in there. There’s always the desire to, “I mastered it. Now, I can play.” That’s why the tracking is important at the beginning of each phase as your ego, excitement, or passion wants to go in a million different directions at the same time. You feel like you’re like a puppy chasing a bunch of colored balls. You’re like, “All this is good, but what do I do?” I’m finding it where I’m thinking like, “Do I need to track my shit anymore?” I’ve been consistent over the last years. I’ve fallen off of it. I track my expenses and income. My conversions have been consistent that I’m ready and I’m going to experiment with my business on a different kind of reaching out, a ballsy way of reaching out to clients. I’m going to track that to see how that goes.
That’s perfect. There are always those different levels. There are plateaus and levels to whatever you want to do in life. When you get to a stage, you can enjoy and experiment from there. When you want then to be, whether it’s a new direction or another height, it’s like, “Let’s try this. Maybe it’s more of it or a different thing. Let’s track it to see what happens in those different stages.” That’s a healthy way of looking at it.
Reuben, is there one of the things that you want to drop on people, either a focus, a reminder or something that could help them?
At the end of the day, it’s something we already talked about, which is to get simple with it all. We, entrepreneurs, like to chase shiny objects. We like to do a million things at once, but simplicity and focus are the characteristics of those who truly do the best serve the most. If you’re reading this and you’ve got a million things that are on your plate, simplify it, cut out the fluff, say no to more and say yes to more of what you’re called to do. That’s what I do. That was a game-changer for me because I’m an overcoming people-pleaser. I like to do everything and I’m excited about stuff. That’s honestly helped me the most and that’s what I would like to leave it with.
Allow things to be simple as well. If you’re thinking about this like, “My business is complicated.” Money is a big thing. My problems are acute.” “I get that. I respect that. I’m not going to take any of that down.” What I am talking about is your solutions. If you need them to be hard, they’re going to be hard. If you can allow them to be simple, then you can succeed. Before we started talking, Reuben was telling me about how during a global pandemic could be the biggest week of his company’s history. He’s almost doubling the revenue that he’s bringing in. He’s not going to teach us a different system that he’s not using. How dumb would that be? You could have things be simple and crush it. If people are curious about you, maybe they want to know The Loop Method to use it or get in touch with you, can you drop all of the ways to contact you? I know you also have a Facebook group that they can join.
We have a great Facebook group. It’s called Aspiring Online Coaches. I did another workshop there. We have four dozen free masterclasses and workshops there that people can take advantage of. In our show, The Creators Show, we did an episode on The Loop Method going in-depth on it. If anyone wants to hear an in-depth version, they can find it on The Creator Show, scroll a little bit to find it. It’s probably the best two places to consume some great value that’s going to help people make money off of our free content. That’s always my end game. Hopefully, it can be helpful for the people that are reading this.
Go check out 1 of those 48 masterclasses. If you’re like me and you’re like, “I’m ready to talk. I go in headfirst,” reach out to Reuben online. He’s super easy to talk with if you haven’t gotten it from this interview. He does care about his clients and their success. If you’re feeling like it’s the right time for you to step up, push yourself, and get a badass business coach who’s going to show you how to simplify your business and use that to make a hell of a lot of money, do reach out to Reuben. Do yourself a favor. Get the support instead of making it complicated yourself.
Thanks, Dan. That means a lot.
Thank you for being here and for sharing this with us. I gained a ton out of this interview. I’m sure our readers have. If you’ve got a lot out of this interview or if you’ve been enjoying this show in general, do us a favor, go over to iTunes, hook us up with those five stars in the review. A super-easy way to do it is to take a screenshot on your phone, pop it on Instagram, tag me, Sophie and Reuben. Let us know that you’ve got something out of this interview and enjoyed it. That way, we know to bring you even more like this. With that, lots of love, have an incredible day, night, wherever you are. Show yourself and business some love. Lots of love from us. Take care.
- Reuben Driedger
- Aspiring Online Coaches – Facebook group
- The Creators Show – iTunes
- iTunes – Mind Mastery and Manifestation Podcast
About Reuben Dreidger
Reuben is a business coach who has helped over 400 entrepreneurs move their businesses online.
His method, called The Loop Method, helps entrepreneurs by simplifying the business-growth process and making it easy to spot issues ahead of time by strategically tracking data.
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